WING NOTES
April 2005
Australian Wing Riders Association (Qld) Inc
P O Box 719, Ashgrove
Queensland 4060
www.auswingriders.com
Management Committee
President
Bevan Bradford (07) 3822 3512
E-mail: Bevan.L.Bradford@mainroads.qld.gov.au
Vice President
Lionel Jacobson (07) 3265 6000
E-mail: darling3@bigpond.com
Secretary
Val Thomas (07) 3848 0498
E-mail: ashgrovestationery@uqconnect.net
Treasurer
Eric Madjeric (07) 3886 9845
E-mail: magic@auswingriders.com
Meetings normally held 1st Monday of every month.
Next meeting:
2nd May 2005
7:30 pm
at
Australian National Hotel
Cnr Stanley St and Wellington Rd
East Brisbane
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Wing Notes |
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OFFICIAL NEWSLETTER OF THE AUSTRALIAN WING RIDERS ASSOCIATION (QLD) INC.
EDITOR:.............Clint Lovell
Phone: 07 3398 3437
Mobile 04 1819 2040
E-Mail: info@auswingriders.com
WING NOTES is produced with the object of keeping members informed about matters of interest to AWRA members. A copy of each issue is sent to every financial member of the AWRA. Copies are also distributed to selected motorcycle dealers in the greater Brisbane area.
Submissions for inclusion in WING NOTES should be with the Editor no later than the Friday following the monthly meeting, i.e.: Friday after the 1st Monday of the month.
DISCLAIMER: Although WING NOTES will endeavour to reproduce submissions in their original form it reserves the right to edit submissions as it sees fit. Views expressed in contributed articles in WING NOTES are not necessarily those of the AWRA or the Editor. WING NOTES is produced with care, in good faith and from sources believed to be accurate at the time of writing.
The Editor Writes & Secretary’s Desk
Ride Report – Ulysses AGM – One Version
Ride Report – Murwillumbah Ride
Ride Advice – Cassie Doyle Ride For Life
USA Story – Neighbourhood Hazards
Meeting Minutes (Members Only)
Cassie Doyle Ride Registration Form
Click
on a title above to go to that item
Click on any AWRA Logo bike to return here
Hello All
Our resident “Procurer” (he doesn’t like the term) has arranged all sorts of prizes for this year’s AGM. He harassed our esteemed advertisers and came up with several items to add to the pair of Jeans already on offer from Draggin. We now have a jacket from Silver Eagle as well as a few do-rags (for the head), A polar-fleece vest and fleecy-lined helmet-bag from Jeffrey Honda.
A big thank you to the contributors.
Prizes will be won by raffle at the AGM at Kingscliff. You don’t have to be there, but you must have a ticket to win. Get yours now or at the AGM if you are going. Tickets can be purchased from John in Melbourne and Val or Eric in Queensland. (If you can find Eric).
As I write this on Sunday, Lionel is doing fine at home, Rossi is on pole for tonight’s race and Val is in a bad mood (Lions lost).
Contributions for this magazine can be emailed to mail@auswingriders.com or posted to 47 Breslin St, Carina, Qld 4152. Photos and slides can be scanned and returned.
Clint
The
Secretary’s Desk
Hi Everyone.
We are racing through another month and a very special thought for our dear friends Lionel & Mary – let us hope that the Doctors have some answers for you. We are thinking of you both. In the meantime, Thommo and I had to have a special reconnaissance ride last Sunday to finalise details for our Ride Day on Sunday 15th April. It was a beautiful day for us and we found our destination for lunch – up the top of the Blackbutt Range – Taromeo Camp Ovens, 608 Old Esk Road, Benarkin. Owners on the property are a delightful young ‘country’ couple Chris & Jenny Thomas (no relative I can assure you), and they have the scene set very nicely with plenty of memorabilia and what seems an enjoyable lunch of Camp Oven Stew, Damper, Dessert and tea or coffee for the princely cost of $14.00 per person. Our main requirement for this venue is to secure numbers as catering is critical – so please if you haven’t already given us your names – contact us on 3848-0498 so we can book safely for lunch. We will have another monthly meeting before our A.G.M. Meeting on the week-end 21/22nd May at Kingscliffe so any nominations please submit them. I must dash to get this away to Clint, and settle to watch my beloved Lions crush the Swans (metaphorically speaking). Trust they make up for my Wog Boys (Carlton) who lost this afternoon!
Update – Thommo is going along very nicely – 4 sessions of chemo done, 8 to go!
Ride safely everyone, keep well and see you soon. Valerie (& Thommo) 9/4/05.
Something seems to be happening with our drivers. Over the past few weeks I have really been surprised by the poor driving standards of such a high number of drivers. It almost seems that standards have suddenly dropped dramatically and everyone seems to be out to get me. Trucks, buses, cars, makes no difference.
The “Speed kills” message is still pushed by politicians but more and more, the figures used to “prove” their point are being debunked. I have said before how statistical figures are manipulated by using interesting decisions on the reasons for accident occurrence. Like a decision where a vehicle turned right in front of an on-coming vehicle and excess speed was identified as the cause. Not the speed of the turning vehicle, but the speed of the approaching vehicle. It was found that had the approaching vehicle been travelling slower, it would have been able to stop. No mention of turning in front of an on-coming vehicle. Anything to claim another speed related accident. Most accidents have more than one cause; our people just seem to like to claim that speed is always the main cause.
I have just been reading some findings of an American Study which investigated the main causes of accidents rather that contributory causes. The findings were quite interesting. Below are the “main cause” findings of the accidents, together with the corresponding percentage of crashes where speed was the main cause.
| Rear-end crashes: | Inattention, 56.7%. (Excessive speed, 0%.) |
| Reversing: | Looking but failing to see, 60.8%. (Excessive speed, 26.6%.) |
| Lane change/merge: | Look but fail to see, 61.8%. (Excessive speed, 2.2%.) |
| Single-vehicle lose control | Poor road condition/engineering, 20.2%. (Excessive speed: 17.8%.) |
| Head-on crashes: | Drunk driver, 31.7%. (Excessive speed, 0%.) |
| Traffic light-controlled cross street: | Inattention, 36.4%. (Excessive speed, 0%.) |
| Uncontrolled cross street: | Look but fail to see, 36.7%. (Excessive speed, 0%.) |
| Left turn across traffic* | Misjudge gap or oncoming vehicle speed, 30%. (Excessive speed, 0%.) |
* Represents Australia's right turn across traffic
So, there you go; Speed kills! Right! I have been run out of my lane four times this week by drivers not indicating or not looking. If statistics show speed “is a factor” in 37% of fatal and 15% of injury accidents then it must not be a factor in 63% of fatal and 85% of injury accidents. Remembering it “is a factor”, not necessarily the main cause, then what are the Road Safety pundits doing about the real causes.
I see in NSW that the constant barrage that speed cameras are only for revenue raising has had an effect. To counter that perception, speeding in NSW now brings a decreased fine but increased demerit points for offences. Under the new laws, fines for exceeding the speed limit by up to 15kmh have dropped from $130 to $75 but it now means three demerit points.
This year Charleen couldn’t make the Ulysses AGM. School was coming to a finish and there were assignments and tests to do all in that week. I made the decision to take the sports bike this time, after all, this was the reason we bought it, for when I ride alone. The Goldwing is for when we ride together. A long-time friend, Camo, had recently joined Ulysses and also wanted to take his sports bike down there, so plans were made without much thought for AWRA. For a change.
Camo and I set off early Sunday morning. Me on my trusty Honda CBR1000F and Camo on his Yamaha TRX 850. We stopped at Aratula to meet up with Eric and Deb as well as Phil and Vicki. Both Goldwings were fully loaded up with trailers etc and so were taking the straightforward route along the Newell Highway. We were travelling light, thanks to Lionel and Mary, who were taking their 4WD camper as well as their 1800. They therefore had plenty of room to take our tents and sleeping bags. Wonderful. So we left the two Goldwings to their boring, but comfortable highway and headed off for the wilds. I had planned the route to miss all the major roads and even included my favourite piece of dirt road, that ‘couple of Ks’ near Glen Lyon Dam. The CBR took it in its stride, but the Yammie didn’t like it at all. Oh well.
Then it was south in between the Newell and New England Highways. Great roads, wide open spaces and very few patrols. Need I say more?
We overnighted at Gulgong and next morning travelled via Mudgee to Bathurst (did a lap) then took another short-cut via Wyangala Dam, by-passing Cowra. Excellent road.
We arrived at Exhibition Park In Canberra (EPIC) after lunch and set about the business of registration and finding a campsite. Finding Lionel was easy. The big orange bike with the two silver helmets was parked nearby. I phoned Lionel and he said, “Turn around.” There he was. Even though we were allotted sites, some people had just moved in and taken them without asking. We finally found a nice bit of grass with power and a tap nearby. Then it was off to look for a Bunnings store to get some chairs. They were out.
Tuesday first thing was to find the bike shop at Fyshwick and get my speedo fixed and a new front tyre. Then back to the site for some test rides. I tried out the new Triumph Rocket - Awesome power from it's 3cyl 2300cc engine. Then the Buell Firebolt. This was just for fun but it ended up being not so much. The bike, although fast, was truly horrible and vibrated so much it shook my camera out of my pocket at 100kph. Didn't do the camera much good.
Wednesday and the place was filling up. Tents just everywhere, as well as quite a few caravans and campers. We ended up with 5009 attendees. Our AWRA group was scattered throughout the huge site with some just in tents, like us. The Merlos, Madgerics and Rusts, were together with their mini Taj Mahals, the Jacobsons were up on Snob Hill with all the other campers, caravans, buses etc, and others were in Tent City with their fancy semi-trailer showers. We poor folk in tent land just had to make do. But we did alright.
We booked in for some rides and then went with a group who were going to visit the National Museum at the same time as Princess Mary and Prince Fredrik. Result was my mug (and a fair bit of the back of my bald pate) on the telly. I think they used my sound byte as most of the comments by the others would not have been good for prime-time TV.
Then it was back for more test-rides. This time the new model Goldwing and a Yamaha 1300 sports tourer. The Goldwing was lovely, of course, and the Yamaha very civilised, but a little on the staid side.
Thursday was a couple of my favourite sporties, the Suzuki Hayabusa and the Honda Blackbird. I still cannot decide which if these I would prefer so it is a good thing I can't afford either.
Along with all of the above, was a heap of socialising, drinking and walking. Because the drinks were very expensive on-site, we ended up making an esky out of Camo's top box using drinks purchased earlier in the day and ice from the nearby servo. World's only 850cc powered esky-on-wheels, probably not. Trouble was you could drive it to a party but not home again.
Friday, I decided to go for a ride in the Snowy Mountains. I had been there before in a car but not done some parts and not on a bike. So I talked Camo into accompanying me and we set off early. Rode down to Cooma with the intent of doing a circuit via Jindabyne, Thredbo, Khancoban, Adaminaby and back to Cooma. We started off on some great motorcycling roads, but just 20km the other side of Thredbo, we were slowing to stop for a photo when Camo got hit from behind by a sports bike. There were two of them, travelling at breakneck speed in the 60 zone very close together. The first one saw us at the last moment and swerved and avoided us but the second one was very close and could only see the back of his mate. When the mate suddenly swerved he was confronted with Camo's almost stopped bike.
The resulting crash sent Camo's bike down with him on top and parts spinning off every which way. Somehow they all missed me. Camo suffered a couple of bruises but was otherwise OK, although very shaken. No serious injuries thanks to good riding clothing. The other rider had very sore testicles. We weren't sympathetic. The little Yamaha was badly broken though, as there was spilled oil everywhere, with a broken engine cover, along with a great deal of cosmetic damage.
We exchanged details and then had to leave the Yamaha behind and double on my bike back to the Hospital at Cooma where we had Camo checked out for good measure. His wrist was sprained lightly. Then it was back to camp. A total of 240km being doubled after a prang was not a good experience.
Unbeknown to us at the time, Lionel was struck down by illness at about the same time Camo was struck. Those at the last meeting heard the whole story about that from Mary and as I write this, Lionel is back home and recovering.
Friday night was a big celebratory dinner and our Goldwing group gathered along with about 4,000 others in 2 very large rooms. A good night was tempered a bit with all our woes.
Saturday was the big Grand Parade. Lionel let Camo borrow his bike for the parade. He loved it. The parade was very spectacular, if a little short. Around 3,500 bikes parked in Anzac Parade was a sight to see. After that we went back to the bike shop to see the damaged Yamaha being brought back in. It was eventually written off. While there we met another couple who had been pushed off the road by a car and had slammed their Honda Valkyrie into a tree. Much damage and more injuries than Camo. Poor buggers. They were from the Sunshine Coast and had RACQ Ultra so were getting a car home.
We attended the AGM and watched the furore about rockers with bemused detachment. (A long story that was in all the papers.) Such fuss over something so trivial. The rest of the AGM was good to see and take part in. Good to watch the processes of a 25,000 member club and compare them to our 70 member club.
Saturday night was another dinner and was OK but we were all a little weary and thoughts were turning towards home.
Sunday morning we were packed up and ready to leave around 7am. We had to wait for Mary to come from the hospital in the camper so she could take some of our stuff. Camo was bringing Lionel's Goldwing home for him. We set off with Bevan and Larry and Annette and had a pleasant ride home, stopping overnight in Armidale. We got home Monday arvo and Lionel's Goldwing was returned to him when he got home.
As if that wasn’t enough travelling, on the Wednesday I was off again on a driving job. I managed to visit four capital cities in one day. Left Brisbane on a 7.30 flight to Melbourne, drove from there to Canberra where I visited Mary, to pick up our camping gear, then on to and through Sydney, finally pulling up at Raymond Terrace at 12:45am. Home Thursday after taking the required rest period.
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Panorama shot of several thousand bikes after the Grand Parade |
Well here we go again. I love this Ride Captain stuff, but it does have a sense of day jar voo. You see this isn’t the first time I have taken a small but awe struck group on this ride. As a matter of fact this was the third time I have used it. Some of you may ask “don’t people get sick of it?” Hell no!! Hardly anyone came the first two times. Anyway, I reckon if I do it another couple of times I mightn’t even get lost so much, (but that might take some of the adventure out of it).
ASIDE: Here’s some hints about getting lost when you are the ride leader:
1. Never let on;
2. Don’t slow down. As a matter of fact speed up. If you can put some distance between you and the bike behind, you can get some time to figure out where you are and plan your way back to civilisation. The serendipity for you is that when the rest of the group catches up they will be so glad to see you that they will forget what a nincompoop you were for getting lost.
3. At the next stop put on a big smile and a smug look and say something like, “how’d you like that little side track? It took a lot of research to find and plan that route and I’ll bet you can’t get back there without me.” HINT: don’t get lost up dead end gravel roads that make wives distrust hubby’s ability to do a sixteen point turns in gravel and so they publicly embarrass them and get off.
Anyway back to the story. The first time I used this ride was when a large portion of the club was gallivanting around Australia to get p-----d with some other old and disgraceful geriatrics. I can’t remember why no one came the next time but I do remember at least one club member had to stay home and sort their sock drawer, and another thought their budgie was due to have a happy moment. It was later revealed that they only had one budgie so we were never able to determine exactly how happy the budgie got. Actually most of the others went on the Cassie Doyle charity ride and a worthy cause it is. (I thought that ride with other types of bike was excellent opportunity to show other riders how a precision piece of machinery like a Gold Wing performs and gets home every time.) I feel sorry for you who can attract more bikes on a ride than ships that were in the Spanish Armada as you have to plan a new ride each time. Mary and I have changed our deodorant and started reading Dale Carnegie books so we will see how we go in the future.
It was a fine day that greeted us in the morning of the ride which was a relief from the bucketing rain the day before. I opened the garage door and there in my garage was Big Goldie smiling and champing at the bit to go riding. I still can’t get over the look of disappointment he had on his headlights when that new pretty white girl, (Evie), who he had been winking at all night was wheeled out and he was left behind.
See Evie is the new addition. A 2000 model SE that we had just added to the stable. Goldie just doesn’t understand. He’s carried this fat Rs around for 100,000ks and hasn’t put a foot wrong. It will be sad to see him go but we can’t afford two. (Don’t tell him because I think he was planning to get with Evie and make a Revere). We headed to the BP at Yatala eerr Stanmore eerr (just south of Beenleigh on the M1), and we were really excited because Evie has a CB, which was going to be an asset on the ride. I am sure there must be someone up there with a sense of humour because after riding for 5 years without a CB, and 1 year with a CB that won’t work, we finally get a CB that works and my head set s—t itself between home and the BP.
If you think that is funny, listen to this. The microphone in my head-set worked so I could speak, but the speaker was useless so I couldn’t hear. Mary’s speaker was functioning so she could hear, but she couldn’t control the press-to-talk to speak. Can you imagine what it was like with her doing the hearing, and yelling instructions into my deaf ear so I could make comments. Great!
We were pleasantly surprised on our arrival to see other Wings in the car park. Mary and I had a hearty and nutritious breakfast from Macca’s and greeted the merry group as they arrived. Ten bikes assembled and I waited until everyone had their helmets on to give the pre-ride briefing. Never mind, it didn’t take long to get them off again. 18 people gathered around and I rolled out the pre written briefing carefully designed to absolve me of any blame if someone decided to ride into a truck. It was a spectacular site with me standing before the masses orating like Billy Graham at a revival meeting. One passer by stopped to listen thinking he had stumbled on to an Amway convention.
We set off under the M1 through Stanmore and on to the Beenleigh / Tamborine Rd. We followed that back toward Beenleigh and a left turn at Coonan’s Corner led us on to Bahr’s Scrub Rd and then we followed some other roads to the Waterford Tamborine Rd. We went through Tamborine Village and headed up the mountain. We were caught behind some cars for a while but I seized the chance on a 25 metre straight and blasted past. Larry, who had been following behind me momentarily lost the gear lever and Paul, on his new 1800, blasted past Larry and the car all at once. I thought Paul’s throttle had stuck open and fearing he might run up our rear I accelerated away. With me thinking Paul was out of control and he thinking he need to catch up to me, it wasn’t long before we couldn’t see the bikes behind us. It didn’t matter because I knew that the pre ride briefing clearly said that if people got left behind, they were to stay on the same road and we would wait before turning off anywhere.
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With everyone together again at the top of the mountain we headed past some of the most breath taking scenery anywhere and motored towards Henry Roberts Drive. H R Dve is steep enough to launch a rocket from and if the passengers would just open their eyes and stop screaming they would see that the view is spectacular. That brought us down, (sans brakes), to the Nerang Murwillumbah Rd, which we took to Nerang and morning tea. Everyone was so excited to arrive at the break they couldn’t stop talking. One member’s arms were aching from the ride down the hill, and he had to leave after smoko. Before leaving I phoned the Murwillumbah Hotel and confirmed the numbers for lunch and gave them a time. They said that they would pass this on to the Chef.
From there we headed back the way we came until we turned off and went thought Tallai to Panorama. Panorama is a very exclusive address that overlooks the whole Gold Coast, and has an exciting but vertical climb up, and a breath taking descent that used whatever brake pads we had left. We followed Old Coach Rd and some other roads to the Currumbin Valley where we turned off to Murwillumbah via Tomewin. I love that road and Evie needed a stretch so we decided to explore the possibilities of Evie’s Race Tech suspension. Larry had found his gears and his throttle and with the Whoa Boy turned down he was right behind us. We got to the bottom of the mountain a little ahead of the group and waited until we were all together again.
We headed into Murwillumbah and parked behind the pub, and while the ladies touched up the lippy and brushed out the helmet hair we hungrily headed towards the restaurant. We had been there a couple of weeks earlier to make sure they had the right menu, and we rang and confirmed number at smoko and guess what?? THEY WERE SHUT!!!! We are nothing if not resourceful and around the corner is the RSL. We had decided not to eat there during the first stage of the ride plan process as the meal we had at the time, (three of this rides ago), was not very good. We were very pleasantly surprised to find that the RSL restaurant had changed and the meals were excellent.
After lunch some more had to leave and others rearranged their schedule to stay and the intrepid group left for home. We turned off the Pacific Highway to Cabarita, which is another great ride, but unfortunately there were slower motorists in front and we weren’t able to enjoy the corners as much as we would like. Never mind, they have a right to enjoy a drive too. At Cabarita we turned left and I just sensed that everyone was dying to see what the new Salt development was like so we detoured through the car park past the restaurants and shops, and through the resort Portico. The Resort staff were so excited to see us they were speechless. They stood there with their mouths open as we filed through on our Wings.
From there we went through Kingscliff and linked up with the M1 for the trip back to the BP Coomera for coffee and good byes. Some comments during & after the ride were: “Great ride. Great speed. It’s good to ride with people that can ride”. “Great ride. We should make this an annual event”. Great ride, loved every bit”. “The best bit must be ahead because the last part wasn’t”. Oh well, can’t please everyone. Anyway we had a great time and the good news is with 30 odd members in the club it will be 2½ years before it is my turn again and everyone will have forgotten this ride and I will be able to trot it out again.
Stay safe,
Bill & Mary
The Cassie Doyle Memorial Ride for Life is on the 19th June. I received a call the other day advising the date and requesting the Australian Wing Riders attend. Our attendance was greatly appreciated last year and the Goldwings are really appreciated as rides for the dignitaries. Unfortunately, although the date has changed from last year, it again falls on the 3rd Sunday of the month. I did explain how this can cause a problem for our group as it’s our ride weekend and few want to pay $110.00 for the privilege of a pillion ride for someone who would usually be on the back seat anyway.
However, this is a good cause and I hope as many members as possible can make themselves available to attend this great fundraiser
For those who came in late, (as they say in all the Phantom comics), the Cassie Doyle Memorial Ride for Life is held in memory of Cassie Doyle. She was diagnosed with leukaemia in 1994 but sadly lost her courageous battle in 1999, aged just 21. This will be the 9th year of this event. Riders are invited to participate and donate their pillion seat for an allocated passenger. Riders can bring their own Pillions for the same price of $110.00. Past rides have had over 250 bikes and everyone has a great time.
It’s a free day for Riders who also receive a patch for their jacket in appreciation of taking part in this event. Can’t knock a free lunch. Pillion passengers pay $110.00 for the day, which includes all of the above and a T Shirt. If available, lunch tickets can be arranged for $25 each if your partner wants to come for lunch but not the ride, but bookings should be made early.
We will discuss this at the next meeting but a registration form is attached for anyone wanting to register immediately.
Click here for the Registration form
Let’s support a good cause and show off the Goldwings
Bevan
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Cooling Garments (Vests, Caps, and Do-Rags) to Combat Motorcyclist Heat Stress
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For more information on Silver Eagle Outerwear, contact: Silver Eagle Outfitters Australia, 705 Dalmore Road, Cardinia, Victoria Phone: +61 (03)5998 8336; www.coolingapparel.com.au Email: info@coolingapparel.com.au |

From “Life Is A Road” by Daniel Meyer
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Here’s first look of what the patch for the AWRA AGM 2005 will look like. Exact colours can not be guaranteed as all our computers and printers are different from the patch maker’s. The idea is Maroon writing on a yellow background with the grey bike. Design was sorted at the April meeting by general consensus. Size is 75 mm (about 3” )
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Dobbing myself in this time. Really an oversight on my part. We arrived at BP Stapylton, went in for coffee and returned to find, to my horror, the bike was practically NAKED.
Those with delicate dispositions might want to cover their eyes right now. Lucille was wearing only a small part of her full dress, with a gaping hole in the side for all to see.
I was SO ASHAMED. Everyone could see HER BATTERY!
Seems I had removed pieces of her dress to add a recently acquired battery/alternator monitor and had forgotten to replace the side panel. It was sitting at home on the bench.
We had to ride the rest of the day with our legs covering the right side to avoid further embarrassment to the poor thing.
Clint
Social Coordinator – Wendy Beddows Ph: 07 – 3812 4166
e-mail: nnikki69@optusnet.com.au Turbo's Mobile 0421 304 144
RIDE DATES: Unless otherwise arranged, rides will be on the 3rd weekend of the month, and Social rides, the following weekend, with other social events as announced through the year.
** Ride Leaders: Please check the details of your ride and let me know of any changes. Ride leaders are also asked to organise 2 raffle prizes for their ride. Suggested value approximately $10.00 each. Raffle tickets will be made available from Eric.
IMPORTANT: Even if you have not finalised the details of your ride, just supply the start time & location, the general direction of the ride, and the meal arrangements.
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY ON RIDES:
It is the personal responsibility of each motorcyclist to be responsible for at least the following;
The roadworthiness of your vehicle (including trailer)
That you are in a fit condition to control the vehicle, (including trailer)
Make sure you have a full tank of fuel before departing on a ride.
That you obey all the traffic rules and ride in a safe manner.
That you ride in a considerate manner that does not endanger, or unnecessarily inconvenience other road users.
To be correctly attired for safe motorcycling.
To have fun and enjoy the day, and the company.
Minutes of April meeting. (Sorry, Members Only)